S2 E36 | A Patriot Counter Argument

S2 E36 A Patriot Counter Argument

Discussion topics in this episode:

• We put the spotlight on what it means to be a patriot in our republic and call attention to a thought experiment. What does patriotism look like in lieu of armed conflict and insurrection? How should a patriot respond to an attempted coup or illegal seizure of power from a government?
  

• Storming the capital is not a legitimate answer. If the election was executed freely and fairly by the book, then we follow the votes, period. No violence should be justified. Anyone who refuses to abide by the winner according to the most votes is then, by definition, attempting a coup against the duly elected government.
  

• Evidence that substantiates claims of wrongdoing in establishing the vote count shall need to be dealt with and we have long-standing mechanisms in place to identify and remedy issues in voting procedures or personnel. To date, there has been negligible evidence of actual vote tampering or other anomalies and none that were so widespread as to impact the outcome of an election. Yet we remain vigilant, county by county.
  

• We should double down on the rules and keep trying at making a more perfect union, each election cycle at a time with that end goal in mind: more perfect.

• Peacefully protesting is the release valve for citizens to band together in a show of force and solidarity around a common cause. If, and now we can say when, an administration cracks down on peaceful protests, then the lawsuits will rise through the courts to protect the civil liberties guaranteed to citizens under the law. The executive branch can be rebuked through the courts, one would hope. Political revolution instead of armed revolution by force is the only way forward if you side with our republic and not against it.
  
  • Footnote aside: Unless said civil liberty has to do with someone carrying a uterus. Our current Supreme Court is fully open to hearing arguments against abortion rights and willing to watch the resulting repercussions of enacting such laws as if one’s mind was so small as to not already know the outcome without needing to collect data in order to inform your decision. It’s all quite billy-boy-bonkers really.

• MVP mentioned something ambiguous about the Warren court, in reference to the U.S. Supreme Court responsible for overturning Jim Crow (Plessy v. Ferguson, 1896) with the 1954 decision that ruled racial segregation in schools, and by association all segregation, was unconstitutional (Brown v. Board of Education). Momentous things can happen at the whim of our courts within the span of 60 years. To and frow the pendulum meanders, oscillating around an inevitable arch bending toward justice. An indelible image gifted to us by the dear late Reverand Martin Lutther King Jr.
  

• Calls to Action:

• • If you have off-cycle elections coming, pay attention, and make sure you vote. In many states, you can be purged from the voter roll for missing only one election. Don’t get rolled, keep voting to stay registered!
    

• • Contact your congressional representatives and voice your support for the following critical legislation to all citizens of the United States. If you want your vote to count and our tax dollars going to the things that matter, then you want to support this legislation:
    
    • For The People Act
    • John Lewis Voting Rights Act
    • Equality Act

Voices

• Michael V. Piscitelli
• Raymond Wong Jr.
  

More info

• MVP wanted to rant on a soapbox about the CA Recall Process being punitive on the voters forcing a snap election with candidates rather than providing a simple yes or no, and letting the dominoes fall into place. We already elected a second in command in case the governorship is vacated prior to the end of their term and this case should be no different. On another note, strategically the lieutenant governor should have been an option for us on the back of the ballot. Next time… and there will be a next time if history is any lesson.
  
  • The recall device began in the United States in a municipality—Los Angeles—in 1903. Michigan and Oregon, in 1908, were the first states to adopt recall procedures for state officials. Minnesota (1996) and New Jersey (1993) were the most recent.
  • Since 1913, there have been 179 recall attempts of state elected officials in California. Eleven recall efforts collected enough signatures to qualify for the ballot and of those, the elected official was recalled in six instances. We’ll see what happens with Newsom in CA on Sep. 15. 2021 or within only days later.

• We have transcripts now! Come to the episode page on our site to check it out. It’s all AI, not us, so forgive us for any mistakes.
  

• Please feel free to share your thoughts through our Contact Us page or on Facebook.
  

Special thanks to

• Our ongoing supporters, thank you!
  
• Our sponsor CitizenDoGood.com .
  
• Intro music sampled from “Okay Class” by Ozzy Jock under creative commons license through freemusicarchive.org.
  
• Other music provided royalty-free through Fesliyan Studios Inc.
  

Transcript

The following transcript was taken using AI technology. We cannot vouch for its accuracy. Read at your own risk. These are time-stamped from the day we recorded and unfortunately not name stamped.

Citizens Prerogative Podcast Closed Caption Transcript
S2 E36 A Patriot Counter Argument

12:10:15 In times like these being a citizen is a big job. Thank you for joining us to celebrate the virtues of self rule and debate the state of our Republic, welcome to the citizens prerogative podcast.
12:10:26 This is the voice of your nerdy host Michael biscuit Telly and we are blessed with a co host who’s passionate for our republic precedes him everywhere he goes Ramin long Jr.
12:10:35 And I will do anything to protect her.
12:10:41 This is episode number 36 still in season two, and the previous episode we just wrapped up was on patriotism, for a little bit of fun, we decided to present a patriot counter argument.
12:11:03 Do a little thought experiment on what what would being a patriot look like that would force us to storm the capital, or something like that.
12:11:09 And I want to thank Michael for introducing that so graciously what he’s really saying is that I’m crazy, and I thought it is appropriate to store in the capital at some point I thought in my mind that you know at some point if the government went too
12:11:25 Is it necessary do we push the bar do we storm the capital. And so this deep thought experiment came from a true thought and I continue to question that as you should we should all be skeptical, forever.
12:11:42 But I love that question so you know what does the worst case scenario look like and, and what do we do about it.
12:11:50 And it all comes back to well, we agreed to what the rules are.
12:11:56 So, we should follow the rules patriotism begs us to follow the rules and, you know, with the sports metaphor. What good is playing a game, a sports game, whether it be football, baseball or something else.
12:12:11 If the rules can be changed midway through the game.
12:12:15 You know, if who actually won the game clearly based on the score.
12:12:20 In the loser doesn’t concede.
12:12:23 You know, we can’t we our systems are not designed to operate that way and the American system this republic, you know, when, when people refer back to a peaceful transition of power being like a really critical component it’s true goes back to Washington,
12:12:38 the first president, who was also the general, the first army.
12:12:43 And he gave up his power, his commander in chief he gave it back to Congress and they elected a new president.
12:12:50 So, the power in transition, and peaceful transition comes in concession, it comes in conceding.
12:12:57 And up until the most recent election cycle we had for President.
12:13:03 Everyone’s conceded, even when strange things have happened. I think you mentioned, you know, George HW whichever the middle, you know the younger bush that became president after his father.
12:13:15 You know courts got involved Supreme Court got involved there, you know, to try and make the election come to a decisive and, because most of the court system is designed to bring a decisive and any case isn’t necessarily for it to be the most just outcome.
12:13:33 outcome. It’s to make a decision so that we can move on and have another opportunity.
12:13:38 So this case like oh my god worst case scenario is, You know, we’ve got somebody in office who won’t you know concede, but there’s apparatuses and mechanisms in place to follow the votes, right so if you don’t interrupt the vote process theoretically
12:13:56 commander in chief title goes to the person who won the votes, whether you can see it or not. So theoretically we’ve learned through most recent experiment that, you know, there is some methodology for dethroning a potential King, if they want to stay
12:14:13 and the election sends them out, which is pretty good.
12:14:17 But storming the capital is like revolution cannot be a part of the system. We can’t have a revolution every four years, you know, that’s why we have elections and if someone fails to concede, and we make a mistake or somebody you know just really cheats
12:14:35 and gets away with it, it’s happened, it’s happened before in our system and it’s quite possible it could happen again I’m not saying it happened recently.
12:14:44 I’m saying historically back to the beginning, right, there’s been lots of funny things that have happened in our system and it just keeps going forward.
12:14:52 And it’s all about the next election. It’s about the next election.
12:14:57 To make the difference.
12:14:59 You’re saying that pens goes with the big lie pants decides to push back, it creates all kinds of turmoil, there’s not a responsibility at that point for the other side to step in and store in the capital because they are really breaking the rules.
12:15:18 At that point.
12:15:21 Yeah, but you can’t establish legitimacy.
12:15:28 My breaking the rules so if you at some point do intend to own the high ground, you have to stay on the high ground.
12:15:36 And I know that’s an opinion.
12:15:39 But that’s the only way you don’t like dismantle the system.
12:15:44 From the side, you know, nobody if everybody stopped following the rules and it just all falls apart anyway right and you have to replace it with something.
12:15:52 We, we haven’t seen that happen to the greatest degree, although you know we’ve seen.
12:15:58 For instance, the Supreme Court overturned its own decisions and its own lifetime.
12:16:03 You know, going, going back to, there’s a court will we refer to as the Warren Court, it was the last name of the Chief Justice at the time. I think his first name was Earl might have been Earl Warren, but in any case within like 10 to 12 years you know
12:16:17 he he overturns his own decisions on the Supreme Court, because they were not in alignment with what was really just or you know what was a really demanded based on a true interpretation a true logical philosophy, philosophical interpretation of the law.
12:16:38 Previous decisions were made through undue influence. And so over time, these things do correct themselves provided we double down on the rules, we’ve all agreed to.
12:16:53 And if there are people among us who aren’t going to follow those rules, then they should not be allowed to participate in that system.
12:17:04 And that’s probably the relief valve or really wanting to talk about all I it’s been it’s been tough for me because I mean of coming from an honest place.
12:17:15 I told you earlier I won’t give you my full strategic layout, but I did think we wanted to go through and, and we had to have a reaction if the courts when south and and if everything went.
12:17:28 Everyone just went kooky about the results of the election I thought we had a responsibility to act or do something. And I suppose I was correct our responsibility was to continue, focusing on the system, continue believing in and strengthening our electoral
12:17:46 system and our local governments to protect us from whatever’s going on at the federal level, not to storm the capital, that is irresponsible, and frankly it’s an earlier time right, a medieval age.
12:18:00 Yeah, definitely. And, you know, we don’t want revolution by force in this nation anymore that’s why we created the Republic and why it has, you know, election cycles and election process so that the government can change with the times.
12:18:17 And with the whim of the people.
12:18:21 And even when you don’t get your way you don’t get what you wanted, you know you don’t throw away the whole thing, you play the game. Harder, Better. You know you come back with better ideas.
12:18:36 That’s.
12:18:38 Theoretically, you know, the way the system is structured and set up to operate in historically speaking.
12:18:44 You know the pendulum swing swings and a lot of different directions.
12:18:49 And then in our system, it’s more or less democracy, right, or more or fewer voices in our system being heard through voting and and other mechanisms, and are the laws, you know in alignment with those things so that’s that’s always the big challenge
12:19:08 and too big and complicated and people don’t like thinking about it but when you break it down, you know, just election by election, think it makes it a little bit easier.
12:19:19 But storming the capital yeah like it. At what point, you know, and if I think about it, it would be if,
12:19:30 you know, one party, it would that’s what would have to happen right, a party would have to take have more gravity.
12:19:40 You know the judges sitting on the bench. the judges get war two the parties line, the legislators get work to the parties line and the executive branch gets work to the parties line.
12:19:53 The party is the greatest threat, I think, to the healthful functioning of our republic.
12:20:04 And you see that in China.
12:20:08 Now, me That’s why I was thinking the same thing is that, well, the communists do it the Chinese government has their messaging and their party and that level of control, and yet we fall into the same ideals.
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12:21:52 It makes me, or at least I’d like to be clear that my original plan and it’s documented on our behind the scenes have that I only was suggesting on March.
12:22:05 On the Capitol if I thought everything went south. So, I still feel very patriotic in my overall intentions. I do believe that I would hope we would not violate any property lines because that’s really what it comes down to, I think, going to the capital
12:22:22 marching on the capital is very patriotic, I am with you all the way until you breach the line, until you, you come into a place you were not invited.
12:22:37 And so, I, I appreciate that. I still questioned it though like is is it ever appropriate to go but it sounds like what you preach his perseverance, patience.
12:22:51 Probably doubling down on the system, and can, and just airing your concerns about the failure of the system, and not necessarily like what action can you take right once you remove people from power who, who is the king who goes in the vacuum.
12:23:09 And there’s probably no good way, as we’ve shown through our own wars in America. There’s no way to really replace it.
12:23:19 Yeah, the peaceful peaceful transition of power and the way we’ve, we’ve demonstrated it still today is the best option. We’ve got and trusting in these election processes and you know what’s really interesting is the recall.
12:23:38 I was just thinking about this now occurred to me. We were having conversation recently so in California right now.
12:23:44 There’s a recall election underway for governor of the state.
12:23:49 And we’ve, we’ve touched on this before and I’ve expressed an opinion and I have an updated refreshed opinion to present, and it’s around the same concept right the vacuum of power and trusting in the process we set up in elections, even when they’re
12:24:05 gerrymandered and everything else right we’ve always struggled to make a more perfect union.
12:24:11 And we can never stop right we can never rest on those laurels.
12:24:17 But I’m really frustrated with this recall process, it is not helpful, it is not productive for the state of California, the process itself is cockamamie to use a technical term.
12:24:33 So you get a ballot right you get a ballot in the mail. And on the front ass, you know, do you vote to recall yes or no. So, there’s an initial question.
12:24:43 Do you recall the current governor yes or no. And on the back of the ballot. It’s like 45 names of other people that you’re going to vote for governor, if the governor is recall.
12:24:54 So, even if I say no I don’t want to recall the governor I should select somebody on the back of this sheet, in case he does get recalled, who do I want to be governor.
12:25:04 And there’s like, there’s no good options like this is an off cycle strange thing you’ve got politics, you’ve got party politics coming to bear so there’s like two or three Democrats.
12:25:15 There’s one Green Party person, you know, whole bunch of republicans but none of the candidates are good.
12:25:24 And what would you expect this is just a snap election. And I don’t get the choice of real acting, even if, right, like if the governor gets recalled and that wasn’t my choice I still can’t pick the same Governor’s name.
12:25:37 I have to pick some some some third fourth fifth rate I don’t know what like for me, it should stop at the front of the ballot, in my mind, what happened in New York recently with Governor Cuomo stepping down and Lieutenant Governor stepping up, and then
12:26:03 lieutenant governor selecting the next lieutenant governor, make sense it’s a it’s a much more peaceful transition of power. In my opinion, and so in California when we do the recall it should just be recall yes or no.
12:26:07 And if we recall the governor, we don’t get to pick who’s next it’s the, it should just be a clinic, good luck because I think that’s her name. I think that’s our lieutenant governor she should just get elevated the governor for the remainder of the term,
12:26:18 select the next person we go through a normal action.
12:26:39 That was like not that Arnold Schwarzenegger was a bad governor but going through a recall process I was in Arizona at that time so I didn’t go through it.
12:26:46 Now I’m going through this recall process I’m like this is horrible. It’s just like one of two celebrity names are on the ballot, and I have this awful feeling if, if the current governor got recalled we’re going to get some random celebrity is the governor,
12:26:59 that doesn’t work well with any of the government that’s in place, like, wow, This is how you.
12:27:08 This is how you design a system to not function well, I’ll stop purposefully chaotic.
12:27:17 It’s actually that way throughout it the way our roads are built the mass transit problem, the limited capacity scarcity across the entire system, it’s it’s it’s there and it’s meant to be purposefully hobbled.
12:27:31 If it gets any type of momentum or energy behind progressive agendas. So, it is interesting, I think the dysfunctional California government itself is a good, a good point again, you just have to bear with it, and lean in, I think that’s what’s most important
12:27:50 patriotism is understanding your government understanding its flaws and discussing it openly and not just pushing things to the side, I think that’s the American issue is that we want to put politics to the side but there’s nothing more American than
12:28:06 being patriotic, and that’s just discussing and having an accusation on your own constitution.
12:28:14 Yeah, definitely. There’s nothing more American than talking about politics.
12:28:23 It touches all of us. Um, and so yeah I guess all this is just a long winded argument for me to say well, even if the system is messed up, then that means it’s up to us to fix it, you know, and not just complain.
12:28:35 So, what I realized is going through this recall action now I’m.
12:28:41 I’m very interested in maybe helping put together a ballot proposition that changes this recall process, I have to figure out if it can be changed your ballot proposition or if I have to call our state legislators and be like okay we need to change this
12:28:56 process so that we’re only doing a recall we’re not putting in place we’re not electing it’s not a Snapple action.
12:29:03 That’s just crazy.
12:29:05 In September, it’s off cycle. They just picked some date in September for the election so I get so annoyed by these types of things because it’s, it’s an unhelpful add on right you support the right to recall that is a.
12:29:24 That is something you believe in we do we do a recall rights for our judges here in Arizona, and our governor as well. So we have we hold that ideal.
12:29:33 It’s just strange to me because it also shows that something else is broken, like either the center process doesn’t work in or the impeachment process doesn’t work because of those were the, you know, while center wouldn’t remove anybody with a peach
12:29:57 metal in right and prevent future office holding.
12:29:53 To me recalls just disruptive.
12:29:57 Thank you said.
12:30:00 And I’m going to do now I promised everybody now I’m going to go do my research on, on how recall elections came to be in California, I suspect it was a ballot proposition, some of the worst laws that have ever been passed, I think in the state or through
12:30:13 ballot proposition.
12:30:15 Probably they’re largely special interests that’s the problem is that, you know, all of these lobbyists groups and special interest groups there there’s, they’re spending and they’re making a ton of money to understand our constitution and leverage it
12:30:29 against us and it’s just it’s just silly that we’re not part of the game. And I think that’s more and more My feeling is that the answer is not action not physical action not reaching some evolution.
12:30:44 Not revolution. It’s a revolution of thought and mind like the founders did the hard work, the Constitution still intact. I think that’s what citizen do good puts us out here for in the first place is that we live those ideals that the constitution solid,
12:31:00 it’s the it’s the rest of it it’s the framework around it. I keep thinking of your car Michael, we need to read rework this car it just doesn’t have the right doesn’t have the right system over it right it’s got these weird overlays and and oddly shaped
12:31:15 tires.
12:31:19 Duct tape in there, holding things together.
12:31:23 We should go back and actually design something a little more thoughtful vocalize.
12:31:31 Yeah, well we’ll see because all these. We’ve got some big bills coming down the pipe soon.
12:31:37 That’s going to be rebuilding this country so that that’ll be interesting but I don’t know how much of that is going to touch on, on, on rebuilding the, the politics side I think the call from the executive branch right now is just get active.
12:31:52 It’s just a yeah too big infrastructure, it’s big infrastructure, but to fix gerrymandering and because HR one right now they’re going to be able to pass all of the big spending bills for infrastructure that’s going to result in good contracts for, you
12:32:04 know, money to individuals and companies throughout the country hopefully some minorities businesses will get some of those contracts as well.
12:32:13 So everybody votes all the lobbyists, everybody’s happy when the government’s going to spend money even though the republicans complain, their companies are rewarded with contracts so it’s kind of funny, that’s all going to happen but what still stalled
12:32:28 is HR one, what’s still stalled is the important infrastructure work to ensure the Republic is entrusted to us, and not the patriarchy right and not the money.
12:32:43 So money and politics gerrymandering, and anything else that is getting in the way of us in our bumbling is hung up on HR one john lewis john lewis Voting Rights Act is also hung up.
12:32:59 And those are things that are subject to filibuster so right now everything is just about the Benjamins falling the dollars because they can get those things passed.
12:33:09 We’re going to have to start generating more energy around the things that are going to fix our voting system and elections and reduce the waste the money that’s wasted in our elections.
12:33:25 Anyway, I feel like I’ve gotten off topic, we were talking about the Patriot counter-argument when it’s.
12:33:31 When is it right to storm the capital never, never a peaceful protest is always protected under the law, right, only peaceful protest. I guess if it’s evolution we’re past it, you know, kind of like I said be like the end you saw that right like during
12:33:47 the during the, the recent interviews or the testimonies by those police officers they said it was medieval medieval tactics, with even the Haven the whoa right just pushing against the front lines so you really saw a digression in human evolution.
12:34:10 At that point, and if we are this great species and we are to evolve and grow. That means the days of Route combat runt force is that its end.
12:34:24 very poetic. I mean, while we’re pulling out of Afghanistan and doing a 20 year war.
12:34:32 This country I mean we’re 250 60 whatever how old we are the majority of the years we’ve been alive we’ve been at war.
12:34:41 And what is it gotten us on debt.
12:34:49 Let us not execute war against one another on our own soil anymore.
12:34:54 We’ve done it for far too long.
12:35:00 We’ll see if we can find a new way forward.
12:35:03 So with that I think the call to action you said it earlier right right is to lean in, lean into the system. Don’t forsake in it.
12:35:12 If it needs to change then get active figure that out, find out who’s, you know, fighting the right fight, pushing in the right way.
12:35:22 And if it means you know you’re helping people get to voting places polling places and things of that nature, then so be like we’ve got to do whatever we can to make sure that our vote counts as long as it’s hard to vote until we can get some laws passed
12:35:39 right that make it easier to get.
12:35:42 So the pendulum is swinging
12:35:46 against enfranchisement for the vote. Right, making it harder to vote, we’re seeing that all swing again, and that’s history repeating itself.
12:35:57 The courts have opened, you know they’ve shut down many of the laws from the mid mid 50s and 60s of 19th century.
12:36:05 And so now we have to pick up the mantle and reestablish and reassert our authority as citizens in the law, because that’s where the power comes from
12:36:25 Right. We agree to write the rules we agree to, that’s the law. Thankfully, they include the right to assemble.
12:36:29 You know we have a very strong.
12:36:32 Bill of Rights that does allow us the ability to air our concerns and and that’s what we need to be focused on again, all of this focus on fighting each other.
12:36:42 Having a culture war yet again, you know, we already went through it in the past multiple times, but they just keep stoking it to distract us and I really hope that the next era is an era of conversation and era where we we looked up from our electronic
12:37:00 devices, and we came out of our suburban bubbles and our and our even our homes and and became neighborly.
12:37:11 Maybe that is truly the action that energy that even I had to maybe one a march to the capital. Maybe I need to start marching next door, or start marching to the local community engagement shelter to donate my time, etc.
12:37:30 Maybe there’s a different answer to this energy that everyone feels.
12:37:38 Excellent call to action Ray, thank you for that.
12:37:42 No, I think that’s a great high note for us to wrap up on.
12:37:47 We have been your host, thank you to Mr. Raymond one Jr.
12:37:53 And thank you, Mr pika tell you it’s truly been an insurrection, a thought.
12:37:59 It’s it’s been something that’s for sure. I love these thought experiments will have to do more of them.
12:38:06 For more information on this and other episodes head over to citizen do good, calm and click on podcast. While you’re there, hit up the Contact Us page and leave a comment, we’d love to hear from the community. Special thanks to you our listeners, we saved the best for last. You are the best and you have been for years thanks for your support. We know it’s painful and we love you.