S2 E39 | Return to Office

S2 E39 Return to Office

Discussion topics in this episode:

  • Kudos to businesses who were on the front lines supporting a move to remote work to stop the spread of COVID-19 and save lives. Now we have to deal with what the future will look like.
  • Hybrid remote and purposeful on-site face time is also another way companies can remain flexible with their workforce and maximize any benefits of having people in an office space setting. There should be a clear set of goals in mind for bringing the team together and everyone should be open to changing it up for the sake of improvement.
  • We need to be cautious of the pitfalls of continuing an overemphasis on in-person interactions that are motivated for selfish reasons. There should be clear benefits available to all who participate in the office, a level playing field so-to-speak. Otherwise, we’ll only be doubling back down on methods that helped inequality blossom.
  • Workers that remain exclusively in any category, remote or in-office, still risk exclusion through limitations or overexposure from the perspective of visibility or availability to leadership.
    • This can have the effect of further isolating employees that are otherwise the best candidates for a coveted position because they haven’t gotten enough face time with the bosses.
    • And/or unduly influencing bosses to over-index on a highly available person that may not be the best candidate overall.
    • Or more subtly, someone’s bonus may more likely be affected by having a lack of in-person contact with key people in the office.
  • Calls to Action:
    • Question any demands to return to the old normal and seek more information to understand the motivations and perspectives behind the decision-making.
    • Make it part of your one-on-ones, salary negotiations, and employee surveys to talk about intentions behind time in the office and share your respectful, informed, and candid feedback on the matter. Aim to improve the policies or how they are implemented by framing propositions thoughtfully and in a way where the benefits are clear.
    • Make yourself more aware of the history of labor and our hard-fought gains like the weekend, which is how we make gains, through hard fights that require patience, endurance, and a clear goal in mind: A 4-day work week anyone?
    • Employees are expected to act in the interest of the business that employs them and, by extension, in accordance with its policies when they do not conflict with the law. Yes, the laws of our republic always take precedence.
      • Approach topics from as strong (watertight) and well-grounded (can withstand forces) position as possible.
      • Be prepared to listen, receive, and measure the response to your delivery
      • Avoid reacting at the moment.
      • Practice with a friend or coach if you’re nervous.







“New ideas!” image by Serge Shop.


  • Michael V. Piscitelli
  • Raymond Wong Jr.

More info

  • Remember:
    • Acting on behalf of the business within its policy is an excellent place to have in mind when asking questions.
    • Ask questions about how policies benefit the business and its stakeholders or what other outcomes of value are expected.
    • Does the case make sense?
    • If not, then ask more valuable questions. For instance, how will the results be measured to know if things are working as planned or if adjustments are needed?
  • We have transcripts now! Located at the end of each podcast episode’s page on our site. Check it out, but know this: It’s all AI. It’s not us. So thank you in advance for forgiving any and all errors.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed on this podcast are for entertainment purposes and are not necessarily those of the show or its sponsors.

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  • Intro music sampled from “Okay Class” by Ozzy Jock under creative commons license through freemusicarchive.org.
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The following transcript was taken using AI technology. We cannot vouch for its accuracy. Read at your own risk. These are time-stamped from the day we recorded and unfortunately not name stamped.

Citizens Prerogative Podcast Closed Caption Transcript
S2 E39 Return to Office

10:01:16 In times like these, being a citizen is a big job. Thank you for joining us to celebrate the virtues of self rule and debate the state of our republic.
10:01:25 Welcome to the citizens prerogative podcast, this is the voice of your nerdy host Michael biscuit Telly and we are blessed with a co host whose passion for our republic precedes him everywhere he goes, Raymond, Jr.
10:01:38 Thank you Thank you Thank you. I’m working right now, and I’m home.
10:01:45 This is.
10:01:48 This is episode number two.
10:01:50 Excuse me.
10:01:53 This is episode number 39, and we are going to be talking about returning to the office, or maybe not returning to the office, or maybe some hybrid of those things in between.
10:02:07 You know it’s interesting that return to office is going to require a vehicle, because it makes me think back to what you originally told us like early episodes about the our country, our democracy or Republic whatever is a car, and I think about us as
10:02:25 the driver but then it’s just deeper like it continues to work so as I think about that vehicle, the economy and us as the workers so we’re there in the driver’s seat where the workers where the drivers of this economy.
10:02:39 And these rich people in these business leaders, you know, they may enable us, they may put fuel in the tank.
10:02:45 They may give me roads to drive it on or give me the rubber that I need import it. So these industry Titans do do help enable me to live my best economy, but they don’t get this level of control in my life in the office space and I think that’s the problem
10:03:02 is, they’ve gone from just enabling me to controlling, and this idea of the car and we choose our car really just rings true to me so just get harkening back to your original comments about it’s our vehicle.
10:03:18 Thank you, Ray.
10:03:19 And that does a good job of painting the picture about freedom. Like, if we, you know, take the big step back and we’re looking at the car and everything and, and whether it’s a boat or a car whatever it doesn’t matter what the metaphor is.
10:03:33 But talking about our freedom to pursue happiness and everything like that so you know how much money. How much freedom should we be willing to give up to a private company or another individual private individual for money for the sake of money, and
10:03:54 especially if that Purpose The purpose of money is really to sustain my life, or my livelihood like food, water, shelter, like if if my food, water, shelter, if my, the human condition, the level of suffering in the human condition is tied to how much
10:04:11 money someone or a company will give me to do something for them. We have to be careful, careful, it’s a, that’s a very precarious relationship. It’s always a precarious relationship.
10:04:25 When humans field dependent on other humans for their livelihoods.
10:04:30 So putting it in the Muslim basic terms, how much of your freedom should you give up for cash.
10:04:39 It’s almost as if we need some kind of negotiating power it’s almost as if we had a universal basic income businesses might fear that will just choose to lay flat or take a year off.
10:04:51 I like that kind of pressure on a company that’s where the government can help. We have all these issues where the government steps in they don’t do it well, they do 20 year wars and they fail, but there are places where government can enable us, and
10:05:06 this is an ideal of giving us that bargaining chip against our company because we have almost nothing with off with these companies, and I think return to office is the best illustration of dynamics with with the companies, because we have company saying
10:05:21 you will come back pandemic or No.
10:05:25 Yeah.
10:05:27 Yeah, they want to go, they want to go back. They want to make the office great again or something.
10:05:33 Who knows, but there’s, there’s one thing about space time. And when you’re stuck to it like an animal like us.
10:05:40 It only goes forward we can only go forward. And let’s, let’s make forward be progress progression progressive, in a way.
10:05:51 So, with that said, we do want to put some kudos out there on the airwaves. We want to give thanks all those businesses that were, you know, giving frontline workers supporting them through this pandemic and giving people the opportunity to work remotely.
10:06:08 I don’t know, you know, it’s interesting to give people, you know give companies and people kudos for making the right decisions when the right decisions was the obvious thing to do.
10:06:18 But in times like these, I think it’s important for us to recognize that right when people actually see the writing on the wall, understand that they’re going to have to change quickly in order to maintain whatever semblance of deliveries they have on
10:06:33 schedule, right, and shift to remote work, and I, we can put it out there and say, you know, we can give a moral thanks to say, you know, that was driven or motivated by saving lives, which I did.
10:06:50 Which is great, you know. And so, what we have now is the opportunity to re examine our old outmoded relationship to the company office. And in some ways, our outmoded relationship to companies in general because the majority of us workers today.
10:07:07 And if your W two employee or worker doesn’t have a union doesn’t join the union doesn’t like interact with unions or have any protections afforded through the National Labor Relations Board act.
10:07:22 So, you know we haven’t been good about availing ourselves of the rights we had under the law. To begin with, but collectively now everybody can take a step back and look at some of the policies that the companies you’re working for proposing before we
10:07:38 go back to the office. We’re going to try and seed some knowledge here in this episode just based on some of what the discussion is starting to look like many of us who are back office or behind the office workers in cubicles and things like that are
10:07:52 still working remote but a lot of talk about going back to the office and is it going to be flex is it going to be X number of days a week.
10:08:01 So let’s go ahead. No, I just to jump in before we move past it because you’ve calculated it really well.
10:08:09 But I do want to give kudos because it’s passionate for me, that in absence of true leadership in our state government and some of our state governments and absent of true leadership across the board and the national level, the corporation’s did one thing
10:08:27 for once. They took care of, frankly, their bottom line I really believe that it’s begrudgingly because some companies we knew of. We’re willing out their computers on desks, chairs, because they were so unprepared, they were ill prepared for this matter
10:08:44 right so when you’re at that level but you’re also doing the same thing by protecting your people, so more of this please, I’d say to the corporations Thank you, and more of this more compassion, more thoughts and I just want to push back and I know that
10:08:58 the corporations are not there why because we have advocates in the business industry who are pushing return to Office heavily, and they’re citing things that are just basically up to interpretation, like culture, things that are air that are invisible,
10:09:17 so no real physical benefits so I want to stress to everyone that though I give a lot of credit we both give credit to the office, or excuse me, the corporations for making these decisions.
10:09:28 We can tell they’re struggling with it, and they want their cookies back which is the our souls in seats.
10:09:37 Yeah I hear and see a lot of anecdotal evidence from poor leadership styles, right, they’re like, oh but member when, and they wouldn’t talk about when they were being most successful in their role and it required them to have the crux of people immediately
10:09:53 at their beck and call, so that they didn’t have to plan think ahead and do anything other than yell somebody’s name across the room and get an immediate response to something.
10:10:05 Yeah.
10:10:06 And then, you know, their quote.
10:10:10 Collaboration or spontaneous creative collaboration or things of that nature which I haven’t seen a lot of evidence for I hear a lot of people, tout it.
10:10:20 But again, I think it comes from people’s anecdotal experiences and how they like, or prefer personally to have people as you said souls in seats at their beck and call.
10:10:32 I mean, I’m sure this is the same argument that the plantation owners had, you don’t have easy access. If you have to pay the labor, and you can’t just keep them on your land and you know get them out of bed whenever you need to.
10:10:46 That they probably have the same argument if they’re not there I can’t see them so think how far Labor has come.
10:10:52 Thank you shouldn’t laugh but it’s not that far off by any means.
10:11:00 And we’ve, and we’ve talked about it before I’ll you know probably reference back to a few of the previous episodes we’ve had in the show where we’ve, we’ve drawn some of those.
10:11:11 Some of those relationships so.
10:11:14 In any case, we’ll move on.
10:11:16 You don’t need to jump in any points we’ve already made in the past but the good news is there’s new studies coming out there’s been new experiments that have happened, people paying attention to the results of us going into this remote mode, and even
10:11:32 reducing the work week so keep in mind, ladies and gentlemen, and everyone in between out there who’s listening.
10:11:38 The weekend we invented, we created the weekend through labor law, and just renegotiating labor’s relationship to their employers.
10:11:50 Many years ago. So the idea that we work five days a week is just was a negotiated deal.
10:11:57 We could be working four days a week. And what’s even greater about the fact that we could be working four days a week is that there are studies there is now scientific evidence, it’s been studied in more than one case, and the results are showing up
10:12:12 the same.
10:12:15 There are a lot of benefits to moving to a four day work week. And this is in gains both in productivity and in personal satisfaction. So there’s a couple of studies will include it in the show notes I know there was one in, I believe, Microsoft did one
10:12:28 in Japan. And there are some other ones across Europe and of course, Germany has always been kind of touted as an interesting model because they have a heavy hand on their labor controls and I think they’re one of the first ones to implement a 35 Hour
10:12:44 Workweek many years ago, and I think it was just to make sure there was enough jobs to go around essentially after the world wars or something like that but their, their labor controls have remained strong and their relationship with labor remains strong
10:12:59 so they retool people, the things that Ray and I have been talking about like the, you know, universal basic income but then also planning for change right there was a previous episode when we’re talking about the donut economy.
10:13:13 And they made it a point that the sick, the cyclical nature of the economy the new economy that’s going to be emerging is going to require us to tool up more often in our lifetimes like the old days, when America was great again, I guess.
10:13:29 We’ll talk at some point will draw more parallels to the 50s but you know people went to go work for a company and then company took care of them and gave them a pension and then they went and retired and they were everything was hunky dory but none of
10:13:40 that was sustainable.
10:13:42 And since then they’ve steadily you know drawn back on any of that. So our relationship is very precarious to our jobs and our employers now nothing like it used to be and we don’t need to go back to that, we just need to lean into what we know works
10:13:58 well for us which is having choices, none of us wants to work in a desk for 30 years.
10:14:04 That was not the most fulfilling way to do things.
10:14:07 And relying on nothing but investments to get you to retirement is also precarious, I’ve seen that in real life.
10:14:17 So in any case the four day workweek sorry, right yeah but yeah you’re right let the market decide is for milk. It’s not for people. And so right now we’ve let the free market of salary, at which has not budge at all.
10:14:36 That’s impossible. How do you have prices go up as much as they have yet way just stay stagnant so we see that there is a big issue with the relationship so what we’re not we’re not again hybrid remote is really what we think is is the idea which is a
10:14:52 purposeful in face to face onsite contact so leaders have to be better leaders, when they are.
10:15:02 I don’t know what else to say when I was a leader I would, I would say it’s the Disneyland effect i would i would coach, the other leaders around me to say when your staff is in.
10:15:12 It’s not your job to tell them how stressed you are and how busy you are, it’s your job to empower engage and even entertain. If you can pull it off successfully while being appropriate, which is not very easy.
10:15:26 But I think that that’s what’s important is that the office should be an engaging environment people should be excited to come in the office. If people are begrudging about coming into your office.
10:15:37 You have no culture.
10:15:48 There was no culture, they would long for it, right, what people are longing for is having coffee in the morning, I’m always a stickler on that. Therefore being surrounded in like Michael said they’re the leaders are for having the access at their fingertips
10:15:55 we’re not Google, where people.
10:16:01 Let’s go ahead and take a quick break, we’ll hear a message from our sponsor and then we’ll come back and keep me on topic.
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10:17:41 You know, as I look at the topic about the overemphasis of an office. It makes me think about something I learned early on as a trainer, as a facilitator in a classroom is that most people or even a public speaker, I.
10:18:02 Most people don’t remember what was said what happened.
10:18:23 They actually just remember the emotion, so most people don’t you know encapsulate exactly what occurred or what was said that made them upset when they come away from a situation, they will take away the emotion.
10:18:23 So, I really appreciate you bringing in this over emphasis about in office because a lot of people are longing right. It’s been a year or more for some of us.
10:18:26 And what I want people to, to try to remember is that the emotional remember memory, try to tie it back to what it was. And then and try to, you know, not get the office mixed into a don’t mix up the office.
10:18:42 It was just there. So replace the office with the park, it still could have happened. Replace the office with the museum, or a coffee shop. It’s still could have happened if you enjoy human connections, that’s what’s important.
10:18:54 And you deserve to invest time in it. When you choose, not when they choose.
10:19:01 You know that’s a great point of call out for reflection there.
10:19:07 And just a reminder on the brain, you know how we remember things, it tends to be rosier right we remember the more positive emotions, this is, this is a function of our memories, especially when we slip into nostalgia.
10:19:23 Nostalgia has a way of selecting for the things that were great, or we enjoyed or we miss with without presenting some of the aspects that were less positive in.
10:19:34 And thank you for that right yeah I think about the things that you enjoy or you miss the longing, whatever longing or nostalgia, you’re experiencing from times in the office.
10:19:44 Maybe examine that see, you know, see what from it is really related to the fact that you’re in that physical office, probably not. Think about what you achieved what you accomplish what about that event that interaction really did it for you, and figure
10:20:00 out how to pivot, pivot it to another environment, a new environment if it’s not virtual then it’s outdoors, you know, in a physical place where people can be co located safely.
10:20:12 We have to really take a step back and rethink of these things so besides just moving to a four day workweek which it would, you know it’d be eight hours less than 40, whatever the math is there 32 hours a week, we’d be working, and still getting everything
10:20:28 done. I mean I’m not talking about four by 10s, we’re talking about a four day work week legitimately so and and the evidence is there the data is there to support that so it’d be really exciting to see if we can, we can move our companies in that direction.
10:20:44 If we can as workers apply pressure to move in that direction. It would be really great and hopefully there’ll be more studies coming out supporting it.
10:20:52 Because we can make a really good business case with all the studies that are coming out and just make a note anybody out there who wants anything to happen in business make a business case, there’s always, you know, there’s always a financial or or productivity
10:21:11 or whatever argument to be made in the world of business, then it can’t be ignored. Especially if you can make it about the bottom line.
10:21:14 Hybrid remote work.
10:21:17 Hybrid remote work. So, going to hybrid requires us to be more purposeful.
10:21:22 Ray was alluding to this you know the idea that as a leader.
10:21:26 We need to be considerate about how we lead, and we have a lot of leaders we have a lot of people out there that are just workers they’re just highly paid salaried worker is there like delivering things, but they’re not delivering leadership.
10:21:41 And we need to get back to a point I’ve heard people in companies even recently make this comment we’ve got managers who aren’t managing and not in the way that they should be over your shoulder micromanaging but this idea that, yeah, we, we, leaders
10:21:58 managers should be taking a step back and, you know, holistically looking at the environment and the culture that’s being created and are they doing things, because it’s personally easy for them to do it that way, are they actually doing things the right
10:22:10 way, which is more difficult.
10:22:13 And actually does require real leadership and so the hybrid environment forces us to be purposeful in, why we’re bringing people together, right, we can remain flexible with our workforce but we need to be cognizant with an eye to maximize any benefits
10:22:29 from having people in the office, or co located, even if it’s not in an office, if it’s for an event, maybe a team building activity if it’s not for a team building activity, it’s, it’s for, you know, a joint application design meeting or you know whatever
10:22:44 you might have to bring people together to solve problems, you know creatively in person. There is some value to that, but that’s a very specific purpose there’s a specific goal in mind a specific output for bringing people together whether whether the
10:23:02 goal or the output be increased camaraderie, increased teamwork through some measurable metric, or to have defined the milestones for a project or product, you know have come together on some intractable problems people have been working on for a month
10:23:22 remotely, and haven’t been able to pull it together so we’re just going to pull everyone out of their daily grind and come together and finally solve this problem that’s been intractable.
10:23:34 But we have to do it thoughtfully. Right, we have to set the stage, we have to have some pomp and circumstance to it like you’re saying right and that will like bring so many benefits to these types of interactions that we didn’t need to be afforded before,
10:23:49 or the level of engagement, you know, to prepare for something like this when you just happen to have people around.
10:24:00 I continue to re examine my position I want to be clear that I you, I was formerly and in office advocate. I was a production expert I was able to gain tons of production gains for my former companies have enough that they could reduce staff by a third
10:24:21 at one point so you know I understand what the human fingers can bear.
10:24:29 But that’s if you remove the humanity.
10:24:32 And that’s why I don’t work with that company anymore and that’s why I chose to vote with my feet, because I have that ability I have the ability to come up with great processes and designs that can be used for good or evil, there’s a balance I’m sure
10:24:49 in everything. Unfortunately with business. It is a balance because we’ve seen business can be the most evil.
10:24:58 Yeah. Yeah. So all of us need to be cautious about the pitfalls of continuing an overemphasis on in person interactions.
10:25:08 So many pitfalls, besides working people to the bone.
10:25:25 There’s something there’s there’s more insidious things that are allowed to continue to prevail, especially inequalities and injustice in inequalities with people getting promotions because of who they know you know nepotism bias.
10:25:29 So many of those things are born out of in office interactions. Right, with people.
10:25:38 It’s a, it’s like a type of social filter, you know, moving people back into the office, it can further isolate best candidates from coveted position because they haven’t gotten enough face time with the boss so when everybody’s in the office the boss,
10:25:53 you know doesn’t have to make a point or nobody has to know how much face time the boss has with certain individuals, so they get to pick their favorites, right, they let their biases slipping.
10:26:04 And now, excuse me if they’re, you know, there’s this behind the scenes selection who they want to see move ahead in the department or in the company or even more suddenly.
10:26:16 Maybe someone’s a bonus, maybe more likely to be affected by having a lack of in person content with contact with key people in the office, or some people’s bonuses bigger just because they had FaceTime with somebody in the office and so I think in a
10:26:29 lot of ways, going to a remote hybrid model, you know, you’re required, you should be required to have one on ones with all of your people. Right.
10:26:39 You, it should help level the playing field so that our interactions, again, are more intentional, and you just, you know, subconsciously I think about the people who shoot the breeze at the cooler or the people have no problem going and chit chatting
10:26:55 with the boss and closing the door and then they’re having some conversation, it might not be work related, but in the back of the minds what’s happening in that interaction that casual interaction in the office is is increased bias towards, maybe that
10:27:10 individual because of a personal connection or a personal relationship that gets them ahead for the next promotion or the next bonus so there’s a lot of that that was happening in the office that this remote environment disrupts.
10:27:24 And I think that’s a really really good thing. And I don’t know if there’s anything you want to remember.
10:27:32 You’re right, you’re right that the disruption is good. We need a disruption because the old offices was designed by I’m frankly the good old boys. The Office we’re in was designed and it’s and it’s so I’m sorry if the office was so important, why are
10:27:46 the cubicles shrinking okay is anyone’s workplace, not experiencing a minimization of the cubes and putting the desk closer together and it was the office was so important.
10:28:03 Then why aren’t we remote desk everywhere now because everyone’s like oh you hoteling excuse me, you choose your desk when you get in the office and we have 300 employees at this site, but only 100 seats, this is innovation.
10:28:13 The office is so important. Come on, it was already going there so don’t look at what’s happening so use both senses, all senses, feel that Tiny Desk that they’re making you go to every day, and then ask yourself.
10:28:27 Oh, culture, this tiny little desk is called and it’s shrinking every 10 years. So is the culture shrinking, oh I can’t I don’t get it. My leaders, you’ve got to try harder than just talking.
10:28:42 And I think that’s what’s going to be difficult, they could come out of their cubicle, they’re bigger cubicle usually I think I’d be like, blah blah blah blah blah.
10:28:50 Yeah, could be smacking culture, okay no you didn’t do your job. You didn’t do your job you need to meet with every individual and make sure and that’s the thing that was the really bad leaders, did that they just yelled across the group like the peasantry.
10:29:05 And then there were leaders that did the one on ones, and people would have to jump to different leaders, just to get development and nurture men or whatever but you’re absolutely right i mean that that’s the problem but leaders need to change right but
10:29:18 what can we do to change leaders.
10:29:22 Yeah, we’re going to have to start managing up so our calls to action, you know, we’re going to be asking people to maybe have some conversations that are a little bit challenging for them, but more importantly just shift your thinking a little bit more
10:29:34 remember you as an individual human on this earth, only get X number of years to your life, companies get to live forever.
10:29:46 And eventually rich people will probably get to live forever too. So keep in mind that you need to protect the years you have available to your life on this planet.
10:29:56 And just because you are, we’re all born into this system where we need a salary or we need an income or beholden to that in order to have food. Don’t let that confuse you, too much, although that’s a difficult I understand we’re in a very precarious
10:30:11 position when we’re trying to negotiate we do have power.
10:30:16 So now is the time for us to push back against any demands to return to the old normal, we do not need to go back to the old in office for 40 hours a week.
10:30:27 That makes absolutely no sense and we know that’s true. Now more than ever, among more of us than ever.
10:30:35 So make it a part of your one on one, and maybe your salary negotiations, and any of your employee surveys to make it a point to push back on this full time in office stuff.
10:30:49 And if you have an opportunity to talk about or rate, the culture. If the culture is developing you making you feel included isn’t getting you clearly to where you want to go, or on a roadmap to where you want to go with your career, even if it takes
10:31:06 you away from that company. These are things that you should have these are things that you deserve as an employee. You deserve a plan. now you have a responsibility to help make it happen.
10:31:16 So, this is what we’re kind of calling out to you to make sure you’re doing on your side of the fence because all too often we don’t serve ourselves well enough, and our managers and our leaders have very little opportunity to feel like they did anything,
10:31:35 you know, in incorrectly, because we’re not doing enough to push for ourselves so it’s important for us to demand these things it’s. These are our lives and to respectfully descent we want to be clear, you know we’re not asking you to go get fired through
10:31:51 through insubordination. We all know that the old aristocrats structure still exists in the business environment. So you have to be respectful to the leaders but you need to ask the questions and you need to say, I don’t understand why you want me to
10:32:08 go in debt to get a car when I just realized that I don’t need one for a year and a half, I want to understand how I can help not pollute my state which is Arizona which has a huge pollution problem in the city, because of the the the bowl which is that
10:32:25 have wind to carry our pollution away like some cities or countries. We have that issue where the air quality is very poor. Can I not pollute, so make the conversation semi philosophical and ask, don’t tell.
10:32:42 I think that’s what’s different sometimes people get into work position, and you start getting a position where you tell them what they’re going to do.
10:32:48 And really, you shouldn’t you should really just plead, in a sense, and ask. That’s where our bargaining power is I think in that one on one if you don’t have a union right, I should union conversations are much different, but in a non union environment.
10:33:02 You just need to ask and how long have you been there. Okay. How long have you already been at your company 510 years. How much longer will you be there.
10:33:11 I just keep asking your over here and let them know what’s important to you. This isn’t something that’s going to change tomorrow. This is something that takes ages, much like our racism is taking ages to do evolve right and and move out of our, our vernacular,
10:33:29 the way we command people, the workforce the way leaders believe they own you have needs to stop.
10:33:39 And it’s going to take time for that to go because guess what have you ever taken a toy away from a child.
10:33:46 There are a lot of children in positions right Michael you said it, a lot of workers who were just really really good. And they were moved into a position, so now they’re basically a child amongst amongst leaders and they really should be leaders, and
10:34:01 they need to know how to drive a business and help people grow, but we’ve all worked for children, right, someone who’s like me me me and doesn’t know how to share and plays favorites.
10:34:13 Thanks.
10:34:14 No, that’s, that’s very powerful. You know, the business case the logical argument, doing what makes sense for the business right as an employee I want the business to be successful as well.
10:34:28 Help me understand how this is better for the business when, you know, in my mind, this would be better, you know, or how, how is always a great question, and it’s, yeah, asking those questions is really important and that’s the best way to approach it
10:34:42 I agree.
10:34:45 Being inquisitive and searching for the logic of it all, like the reasoning the real reason, not that emotional whatever they want more not in a relationship where managers can get whatever they want from us that’s not the point.
10:35:00 The point is the company has policies that need to be followed. and here to work that needs to be done.
10:35:05 And we need to be doing it the most efficient, effective way possible for the company. Right.
10:35:11 So anytime you can reframe things like what how is this better for the company. How is this better for us. How is this aligned to our culture, how is this in accordance with this policy.
10:35:20 Those are your best mechanisms of operation in this environment.
10:35:29 And not to villainize all bosses because there are great bosses and and really they are a product.
10:35:35 Just like our over consumer is a is an issue. They are a product of the system the system. Everyone has a boss including our CEOs of these corporations.
10:35:45 There are people in a higher level that say, we must keep it businesses usual This is the way the economy works we know what works why it gets away, and they speak and very high fashion, I’m sure, but that is that is the issue is that there is too much
10:36:02 uniformity in our system, centralization we’re against it. All right, I’m done Michael I think last call to action before we wrap up this to make yourself aware of the history of labor, and our hard fought games like the weekend.
10:36:25 Right, which is how we make games through hard fights and not physical fights and that’s it.
10:36:32 We’re not finished just yet folks, we’re moving into behind the scenes No, I want to remind everyone and Michael’s Now keeping me on topic. We’ve come a long way as labor.
10:36:55 So we’re just asking you to ask your boss for a little bit in a conference room in the old days if you showed any distain Are you protesting.
10:37:22 the authority to shoot you down so we’ve come a long way in labor and we have a long way to go. Sure have, we’re going to go out on that now. Everybody stay safe.
10:37:28 Stay safe. We’ve been your host, thank you to Mr. Raymond one Jr.
10:37:34 And thank you, Mr. Michael pika Tally.
10:37:38 You’ve truly shot me down, bang, bang.
10:37:43 This has been something that’s for sure.
10:37:46 Thank you.
10:37:48 For more information on this and other episodes, head over to citizen do get calm and click on podcast. While you’re there, hit up the Contact Us page and leave a comment, we’d love to hear from the community.
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